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Post by carl Statham on May 21, 2019 12:58:18 GMT
Surely the fast group as a minimum is a good CAT3? Isn't it a training session for those racing anyway? Not a have a go ego boosting session.
I am bit of a data nerd. So if my Watt bike Watts per KG measurement is under 4, which has been the case since I made a half-century, then there ain't no way I'm holding on to the fast group until the top of Layhams and I'll just be in the way.
See you in group two ......... and maybe group 3 later if things aren't going well.
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Post by Sara Barman on May 21, 2019 13:03:52 GMT
Er just be careful not to smash apart any of the slower groups lucky enough to hoover you up!
Btw is Watts/kg less useful for flatter rides..? It’s certainly tricky for ladies with lower absolute power...
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Post by Martin Headon on May 21, 2019 14:19:54 GMT
Er just be careful not to smash apart any of the slower groups lucky enough to hoover you up! Btw is Watts/kg less useful for flatter rides..? It’s certainly tricky for ladies with lower absolute power... W/KG is a decent measure of ability, but is unlikely to be a hugely accurate predictor of performance unless you're doing a one hour uphill time trial. Like you say, on the flat, it's less important, and raw watts + aerodynamics make the difference.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 14:38:28 GMT
I've just got power so have some stats if you want:
"Layhams Road" 2.31km strava segment (from the dip at the bottom)
AVG MAX Speed 31.0km/h 43.2km/h Power 357W 663 W
Most got dropped in this segment 4:28 @ 4.89w/kg
A short gap until the next longish segment 7.9km "FTP test" it's then down hill and a bit of recovery after this.
AVG MAX Speed 36.7km/h 50.0km/h Power 284W 841 W
12:55 @ 3.89w/kg
If you get over the top intact, "Polhill LVG" is the next big drop spot:
AVG MAX Speed 28.5km/h 37.8km/h Power 339W 530 W
3:08 @ 4.64w/kg
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 14:54:17 GMT
NP for the full route (last week) was 297w so 4.04w/kg over 1:28 (time). There were only 3 of us left by the time we got to Crystal Palace hill.
I haven't had power for any road race comparisons but Palace E12 two weeks ago was about 330NP for 40 minutes (4.52 w/kg).
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Post by jonathanmaher on May 21, 2019 15:15:09 GMT
Watts/Kg stats to determine Chaingang groups?
What a time to be alive!!
😉
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 16:08:44 GMT
I didn't start this Mr Maher, just responding to popular demand
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Post by Kathryn Elizabeth Innes on May 21, 2019 18:18:01 GMT
Er just be careful not to smash apart any of the slower groups lucky enough to hoover you up! Btw is Watts/kg less useful for flatter rides..? It’s certainly tricky for ladies with lower absolute power... This. It happened a lot a couple of years ago... we'd have a good intermediate group working well together then some riders from the faster groups would fall out of their group and smash up the pace and pull it all apart. Please do be respectful of the ethos of the group you join ...the intermediate and steady groups try to work together and not be Darwinian, so different aim entirely.
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Post by carl Statham on May 21, 2019 19:41:06 GMT
Although I agree with you Katherine on the etiquette, the chain gangs aim in its truest form is meant to be a very hard work out. Generally, if you are down at Elmers End for 7pm you pick the group that'll work you very hard and then smash it. Everyone blows up at the same points .... Dog Training Ground, The rise past the last farm on Layhams, various points up to/on Pole Hill and then the smash fest into town.
Keir's stats align with how I have seen the first group over the years though. In reality, I do not need a power meter to know which group to be in. If you are a good CAT3+ level you'll survive, if not you won't. The second group out was just under that and the third a little below that so generally 36kmh, 32kmh then 30kmh was the summer speed I have always seen.
If you are new, do a test run. If you can manage over 30kmh back to CP on your own you'll probably survive.
I thought those wanting something less smashy and probably more enjoyable ride were now going from Cadence?
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Post by Kathryn Elizabeth Innes on May 21, 2019 20:15:18 GMT
Although I agree with you Katherine on the etiquette, the chain gangs aim in its truest form is meant to be a very hard work out. Generally, if you are down at Elmers End for 7pm you pick the group that'll work you very hard and then smash it. Everyone blows up at the same points .... Dog Training Ground, The rise past the last farm on Layhams, various points up to/on Pole Hill and then the smash fest into town. Keir's stats align with how I have seen the first group over the years though. In reality, I do not need a power meter to know which group to be in. If you are a good CAT3+ level you'll survive, if not you won't. The second group out was just under that and the third a little below that so generally 36kmh, 32kmh then 30kmh was the summer speed I have always seen. If you are new, do a test run. If you can manage over 30kmh back to CP on your own you'll probably survive. I thought those wanting something less smashy and probably more enjoyable ride were now going from Cadence? Steady chaingang does a pre-meet at Cadence but also picks people up at Elmer's. Just to emphasise to people reading and thinking about trying chaingang, the steady group is an entirely different beast from the fast groups, it's a hard workout but goes at the pace that the group needs to stay together.
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Post by StephenMaxwell on May 21, 2019 22:48:17 GMT
Although I agree with you Katherine on the etiquette, the chain gangs aim in its truest form is meant to be a very hard work out. Generally, if you are down at Elmers End for 7pm you pick the group that'll work you very hard and then smash it. Everyone blows up at the same points .... Dog Training Ground, The rise past the last farm on Layhams, various points up to/on Pole Hill and then the smash fest into town. Keir's stats align with how I have seen the first group over the years though. In reality, I do not need a power meter to know which group to be in. If you are a good CAT3+ level you'll survive, if not you won't. The second group out was just under that and the third a little below that so generally 36kmh, 32kmh then 30kmh was the summer speed I have always seen. If you are new, do a test run. If you can manage over 30kmh back to CP on your own you'll probably survive. I thought those wanting something less smashy and probably more enjoyable ride were now going from Cadence? A chaingang isn’t a race. It’s purpose is to practice riding closely knit in a group with similar ability riders and sharing the work to keep a decent high pace. If you want to stay away off the front in a road race it’s essential to be as efficient as possible with these skills. Keir is right though, there seem to be enough riders turning up for there to be a few groups setting off each consisting of similar ability riders. If you’re unsure which group pick a slower one and do more turns, then move up the following week.
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Post by Andy Davidson on May 22, 2019 7:01:36 GMT
Cool - some useful definitions of what constitutes fast - and personally knowing I need to be doing something like 4w/kg (mine was 3.5) I definitely won’t try and attempt the fast group until I’m closer to that. The other issue of course is figuring out which group is which. We’ve got a lot of members! My experience moving on from the inters meeting at cadence has been to encounter a fairly amorphous mass of (mainly) blokes not saying much, spot the odd familiar face, but otherwise you’re relying on looking at who has the shaved legs / tattooed calves / most slammed stem to try to suss out the fast group. Of course the more you come, the more familiar the faces - I’ll look out for my mini group from last time - but there are always going to be some less familiar faces so - Let’s just have some clearer communication from the more experienced members saying which group is which. This is why I suggested gathering in a certain area of the meeting point to overcome that classic British social awkwardness.
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Post by Steve Sorba on May 22, 2019 13:59:17 GMT
Cool - some useful definitions of what constitutes fast - and personally knowing I need to be doing something like 4w/kg (mine was 3.5) I definitely won’t try and attempt the fast group until I’m closer to that. The other issue of course is figuring out which group is which. We’ve got a lot of members! My experience moving on from the inters meeting at cadence has been to encounter a fairly amorphous mass of (mainly) blokes not saying much, spot the odd familiar face, but otherwise you’re relying on looking at who has the shaved legs / tattooed calves / most slammed stem to try to suss out the fast group. Of course the more you come, the more familiar the faces - I’ll look out for my mini group from last time - but there are always going to be some less familiar faces so - Let’s just have some clearer communication from the more experienced members saying which group is which. This is why I suggested gathering in a certain area of the meeting point to overcome that classic British social awkwardness. We normally call out at the time which group is which. Ask if you're not certain and someone should pipe up. The fast group goes first, then the slower group(s), depending on numbers. It means people can drop back into a different group once they find Kier has disappeared over the horizon. And use common sense, don't all pile into the same group. It becomes unmanageable and can be dangerous.
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Post by Joe R Booth on May 22, 2019 14:09:04 GMT
The fast group goes first, then the slower group(s), depending on numbers. It means people can drop back into a different group once they find Kier has disappeared over the horizon. . An exception to this last year, and last week, is that I've generally tried to get the steady (i.e. slowest) group out promptly a bit before 19:15 - we need all the time we can get and have sometimes been a fair way up Layhams before being passed, suggesting, dare I say, some faffing in faster groups setting off. This also had the advantage last week of us promoting a couple of people up to the intermediate group as they passed after the police dog centre. On a happy note, the first anguished chaingang debate of the year is a clear sign, like the first swallow, that summer is coming.
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Post by Sara Barman on May 22, 2019 21:16:46 GMT
Actually laughing out loud at some of these posts.
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