Public Meeting - Cycling in Richmond Park - Dec 17th

[David Joss Buckley]

This just in.  I think it's important that we're represented. Perhaps those who use Richmond Park for training could attend and report back…?

Dear All
[Bcc: Kingston Wheelers, Cycleout, Rollapaluza CC, London Dynamo, Dulwich Paragon CC and Islington Cycling Club]
I wanted to inform you of an upcoming meeting initiated by Zac Goldsmiths MP regarding cycling in Richmond Park, 17 December at 7.30pm (see invite below) It would be useful if local cycling clubs are represented at this meeting to ensure that there is understanding of the importance Richmond Park to clubs.  British Cycling’s message around wanting mutual respect on the road, the importance of joining a club, the need to learn the skills of riding on the road - are all important in this setting. If we can provide any more information please get in touch with either myself or Ben Falla [e-mail]

Kind regards

Martin

Martin Key
Campaigns Manager
British Cycling, National Cycling Centre, Stuart Street, Manchester, M11 4DQ 

T: 0161 274 2102 britishcycling.org.uk
M: 07720 736268

The original invitation...

Dear Sir/Madam,
I wanted to let you know about an important public meeting I am arranging for Wednesday, December 17th, at the Duke St Church in Richmond at 7.30pm. The topic will be cycling - and in particular the rising tensions between cyclists, motorists and pedestrians in Richmond Park.  It will be an open forum, and the purpose is simply to explore solutions to a problem that is raised with me by constituents on a near daily basis. I hope that by crowd-sourcing the problem, interesting and valuable solutions will be presented. To that end, I warmly invite you and any interested members to come along and contribute. I will chair the meeting, and have assembled a panel of representatives from Richmond and Kingston Councils, the Royal parks, and the police.

Event details:
Date and Time: Wednesday 17th December at 7.30 PM
Location: Duke Street Church, Quadrant Rd (off the Green), Richmond, TW9 1DH

I very much hope to see you there,
Best wishes,
Zac Goldsmith

MP Richmond Park and North Kingston
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Contact Information
phone: [phone]
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Richmond Borough Conservatives | 372 Upper Richmond Road West | London | SW14 7JU | United Kingdom

[elwyn powell]

Just as a heads up, Twickenham, Kingston and dynamo had a preliminary meeting a couple of weeks ago to discuss this.
They wanted to brainstorm ideas and try to work out the best way to get the cycling voice heard without antagonising the other groups.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, I can put you in touch with Martin who was the Twickenham representative.

Elwyn

[Deleted]

Have you got any volunteers to go to this meeting? I might be able to go as moral support for someone with a louder voice and more well rounded opinions.
Working for Ramblers, it would be interesting to attend, there are examples of cyclists joining forces with pedestrians,as far as I can tell in my limited time there - walkers and cyclists are not mutally exclusive and both suffer from cars being prioritised over other more vulnerable road users.

Richmond park has a health walk that use the park and a 'richmond ramblers' group - but I dont know what their opinion is!

David Wier (gold medalist paralympian, and South Londoner ) puts his success down to training with cyclists around Richmond park.

[Deleted]

I solved this the other day - in my head at least. At weekends, bikes can go anti-clockwise only and cars can go clockwise only. Pedestrians need to use their heads. It's not difficult to stay out of the road. Just cull all the deer.

The last bit was a joke.

[jonathanmaher]

I do hope that the Deer will be properly represented in this meeting - it is their home after all!

[Deleted]

I am wondering how the deer will be best represented. Perhaps anyone with a spare stuffed head, can turn up wearing it?

I might try attending this. I work for Richmond Council and cycle through the park pretty much every day. My fastest lap is also around the 15 minute mark. #talkaboutconflictofinterest!

[Richard Ireland]

Maybe Fenton will put in an appearance. Fenton! FENTON!

[Deleted]

Fair to say that I've clocked up a fair few miles in Richmond Park -- bit of a year round favourite. Though, I have to say I haven't really witnessed any rising tensions lately (too busy staring forlornly at my power-meter?) The invite is pretty vague, and the nature of the tensions is not disclosed but I wonder if anyone else has any experience they can share?

Clearly someone is feeling strongly enough to call for a public discussion though and so as cyclists we need to convey the message that Richmond Park is an integral part of London's cycling heritage.

I'll be there, with my DP jacket, and a cheap tray of vension sausages from the butchers in Putney

[Deleted]

I don't know @benzo. I haven't noticed any concerning tensions between the three groups.

Saying that, there are some daredevil cyclists in the summer hammering it down sawyers hill and from Richmond gate to Kingston gate. 

There's also plenty of time trialists in the summer, who break the speed limit

There are also plenty of cars that speed in the park. I would go as far as saying only 1 in 10 abide by the speed limit. I commute up sawyers hill every day, and the amount of cars that overtake me, despite holding 20 mph on the hill up to the first roundabout before it creeps up to the steep bit - is a joke. They all know they're speeding. 

And, there's also tons of people cycling/wobbling about on weekends in the summer, very slowly.  And there's always lots of pedestrians in the park on summer weekends crossing the road at the cafe. So, these two examples hold up the traffic - and no wonder there's frustration. 

I'll be keen to hear what the Richmondista's think of the park. Coming from a bunch of rich gits people that predominantly

a) All drive totally inappropriate and way to large for roads, not to mention polluting 4X4's
b) Consistently block the path between Danebury Avenue and Priory Lane each school morning and evening - by driving their annoying brats children the 1-2 miles down the road, in biggest cars possible, into the narrowest of roads, stopping to have a chit-chat - and not being able to turn them around without doing an 8-point turn.
c) As above - speed through the park

My first point would be to argue that it shouldn't be open to cars. For the 2 simple reasons that 

a) it's a nature reserve and cars are a pollutant
b) there's Deer and it's damaging to their environment
c) why can't they use the A roads around the park. That's what they're for.
d) If they want to drive through the park instead, there should be a suitable toll to encourage people not to drive through it. Something like £10 each way, with a limited number of trips a week.

Failing that, I agree with the previous point that instead cars should go one direction, cyclists the other. That's not a bad idea...!

[Deleted]

Richmond Park witbout cars would be rubbish for training - roads would end up being shared use with pedestrians. Nothing needs to change, but all users need to avoid behaving like idiots.

[Deleted]

One idea I thought of is to allow cars in the park, but they must exit by the gate they entered from. Or perhaps a car may only enter the park 2 or 3 times a week.

These days the licence plate reading technology is readily available, and the cost of implementation could be "recovered" from enforcement (ie fines!). And, (in my view at least) this would stop people using Richmond Park as a so-called "rat run", while still keeping the park available to a full range of people to enjoy.

I'm not opposed to cars in the park, in fact I've taken my family there in the car a few times and parked up by the Pen Ponds so we can harrass the dynamuts, err I mean, enjoy the walk around the ponds.

[Alex Ioannides]

I've found cars to be generally complaint with the 20mph speed limit (more compliant than I am). I have certainly never felt in danger there. However, it's my fellow cyclists on the weekend that I find particularly annoying - usually all over the road, with a sense of entitlement and little mutual respect for anyone driving through.

If you want the park to yourself, just get there before they open the gates (or after they've closed them). It's unreasonable to suggest removing cars when London's transport system is as congested as it is.

[Ben Knapp]

I've often thought a one way system would solve a pile of problems. Still allows people to get into and out the park at each gate, gives ample passing spaces for slower/faster moving traffic, pedestrians only need to look one way. I don't know if you'd really need a "cycle lane" maybe just a dashed lane set in from the left to act as a guide.

Even if the one way system only operated on weekends it would make a big difference.

As always the biggest issue is people. tossers on bikes, tossers in cars, tossers with dogs, tossers with kids. Trouble is the world is producing more and more tossers.

[Alex Ioannides]

I'm convinced that the number of tossers is directly proportional to population density in any given area. In which case we're all doomed unless we move far far away...

[Deleted]

The bye-law for Richmond Park which had previously restricted the speed of cyclists (and horses!) in the Park was revised a couple of years ago. Now, if I'm correct, the speed limit only applies to motor vehicles, and there's no speed limit for cyclists (or said horses). However there was a case last year where a cyclist was fined. Link below;

road.cc/content/news/94300-teen-cyclist-fined-riding-37mph-richmond-park

However if you are travelling at well over 20mph, there is still the charge of 'furious peddling' which you might be called upon to defend.

I guess Ben's point is probably best; don't be a tosser. Club motto for next year?