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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2005 11:58:24 GMT
Great design and I love the font, really clean and unfussy. My 2 pence though would be the overall darkness of the kit. On long hot summer rides dark colours really absorb sunlight which can really heat up. Allister, do you notice that with the Edwardes kit?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2005 12:50:53 GMT
Thanks to Dan for all of his hard work. Overall a good starting point for discussion. I do have a couple of comments though: the colour is too dark - the blue the Belgian team use would look nice as the main colour and tie in with our trips there; the Dulwich name needs to be more prominant, especially when in a racing crouch, from both the rear and side; and I am not looking forward to the accusations of being a Lance Armstrong fan which might arise from the yellow band on the shorts.
An alternative design was shown to some of us later in the eveniing and it certainly has some interesting design features. I don't want this to be a competition between two designers, but I do think the alternative option should also be given equal airing.
On the sponsorship front, unless the names etc are 'designed in' properly they generally look terrible and will ruin anything that Dan et al can come up with. Ok, we may may miss out on a few riders, but are they the sort we want anyway? Unless it means free kit, racing licences and entries we won't be able to compete with the bigger sponsored clubs anyway.
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Post by Andrew Berry on Oct 12, 2005 13:00:12 GMT
Love the kit -
two comments - 1) Shorts - what about having these in black? For the more powerful riders (read larger) like myself black is a bit more flattering. 2) Colour looks like it will be a problem at Twilight - could we have the yellow or blue strips as a reflective ink or patch?
Andrew
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2005 13:49:52 GMT
Have just caught up with all the discussion on this, sorry for missing meeting by the way, I like the minimalism of the new design and the cleaness of it, I do think the club name could be given more exposure (used on back and larger maybe?) and also that as someone points out earlier in this thread, how the yellow stripe works with a female weering it ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2005 18:21:11 GMT
Love the kit - 1) Shorts - what about having these in black? For the more powerful riders (read larger) like myself black is a bit more flattering. Andrew I love the kit design too but if you want black shorts you can always go out & buy some. The whole point of club kit is that it gives a coordinated and unique identity. I agree with some of the posts that the blue is a bit dark - I like to maximise the chance of being seen by car drivers. That's a minor point though, overall Its a seriously stylish design, great job Dan.
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Post by chamoniards on Oct 12, 2005 19:58:17 GMT
I have to agree with Nigel that it would be good for the colours to have greater continuity with previous versions of the kit. The brighter blue of the current jersey and the brashness of the gold/yellow really make it stand out. The prominent dark blue of Dan's design is I think too austere and conservative unlike the membership of the club.
I also agree that the typography needs greater prominance, either larger or repeated more. At the moment it's not unusual to be stopped by strangers and told about their cycling days from when they where in Dulwich, or even just asked if we're from Dulwich! I think it would be a shame if the typography wasn't easily enough read by people as we ride, race or eat cake in the cafe.
It'd be interesting also to see some of the other ideas that seem to be floating around. Would it be possible to have more images of them up on the website so we can see what they're like?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2005 20:21:36 GMT
I went along to the meeting the other night, and I've had a good look at the gifs on the website. I wish Dan were not the designer of this kit because I feel awkward about being forthright. However... I really do not like this design. It leaves me cold, from the darkness of the blue to the mannered font and minimal flashes of other colour.
I am not suggesting a return to 80s lurid but I would like to see something less repressed and more playful, something that says more about where we come from and that 'special' attitude that the Paragon has that distinguishes it from other cycling clubs.
I want a kit with more life to it. The proposed design seems to me to fall between two stools - a nod to the retro and and an exercise in creating a very clean/dull (sorry) corporate identity. Damn, it's so... tasteful.
The other more practical comment about whether people can actually see the name of the club when we're crouched over our bikes is also a key factor. Also I want our scone vendors to know that we are local.
Perhaps not terribly constructive, but I do not like this kit. I'll end up wearing whatever we decide on, but in the interim please let's see some alternative design ideas posted so that we can have a wider discussion.
I know Dan has put a lot of time into this and I am sorry to be negative about the proposed design. I'd like to like it.
R
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2005 22:56:22 GMT
The more I think about the new designs, the more I agree with Richard. Sorry Dan. On Monday night I was left without any strong feelings either way. I didn't love them , I didn't hate them. This is not good. I want the new kit to excite me.
Inevitably, I will wear whatever is democratically decided upon but I do hope this is fun, striking and distinctive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 8:00:13 GMT
I missed Monday night so I'm not going to comment directly on the designs. But I do think that as we're not changing the jerseys because people intensely dislike the current design, we have to come up with something fairly radically different.
To my mind there's simply no point in largely recreating the current look with a slightly different colour and slightly different typeface. It's too much of a faff. A lighter blue to match the Belgium squad? No one will notice or care. Like Karen says: distinctive, fun, striking.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 12:52:22 GMT
I really like the proposed designs, I think they have a really strong style that isn't about being bold and brash and I don't see that as a negative thing. I think it displays a certain confidence - I've never been that keen on kit that shouts and screams at you. In this way I think it's a really good reflection of the club's character.
How do you make clothing fun? I might be missing a point here but I always associated 'fun' clothing with those simpsons type cartoon ties / socks. Not for me thanks.
There seem to be many coments about colour, visability of text / logos and the need for markings on the back. I would expect that sort of detail to be developed as part of the next design stage.
As for sponsorship - I just can't see what the real benefit is? So we may get a few pounds off the price of a jersey - i can think of other ways I'd rather save that money. I take Theo's point that if they were offering training or coaching or something similar that might be differrent but I just see it as a huge can of worms that we'd be best avoiding.
James
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 13:25:03 GMT
Must admit at the meeting I was given the impression that the time for other ideas had passed. And, if Dan has been commissioned to come up with a design, then that's fair enough, especially as he's clearly put so much work in.
I'm not sure that the designs are quite what I'd have expected, based on what was said on the redesign thread on the website.
All said and done, I'm in the neither love, nor hate camp. With a few tweaks to make the club logo more visible (and to help distiguish it from generic, unbranded tops or the Armstrong 10/2 jerseys), I'd probably wear one.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 13:40:00 GMT
Some people have asked for other ideas, I've had a bit of a play around and put this rough idea together. img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/aubergene/paragon_jersey2.gif I think Dan's original colours are great, you need a deep blue in order to contrast the yellow and make text stand out. The yellow bands will hopefully ensure should you fall off your bike, no one will park their car on top of you ;^p edit: I'm not overly keen on the font used here, it's a bit hard to read, but I don't have gill sans to try out, it should probably be a bit bolder too. Also there is the potential problem of having the name across the zip as my current jersey reads "Dulnich" where the W has become mangled.
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Post by SeanMcKibben on Oct 13, 2005 13:40:31 GMT
The more i look at it, the more I like it. of course, there needs to be discussion about the details - i think the name needs to be more prominent and maybe visible from the side (on sides or sleeves?), and we need to think whetehr the design will flatter men and women. But I think it's quite classy and understated. The last time we had discussion about a redesign (about five years ago i think - there were about 10 of us in the club then) there was a strong feeling that we should go for something simple and understated - in fact, I think plain blue with a small log was suggested! As for the blues we have at the moment, they're an accident of history - we originally wanted both blues to be a lot darker and were a bit surprised when they came out as light as they are. i think we sent a photo of Indurain in his Banesto kit as an example of the dark blue - they gave us Banesto blue, but it looked a lot darker in the photo we sent (nothing as flashy as Pantones etc for us in those days). Certainly, the current kit is very different from the stuff we had before. The other thing is the practicality of making it - i think kevin's right that horizontal stripes will be difficult on shorts. I would be very interested to see the alternative designs - can we get them posted up? And while a design by committee won't work, surely designers are able to incorporate different ideas? As for sponsors - what's in it for us? I don't think anyone would want a sponsor just cos it makes us look 'professional' (that impression wouldn't last long anyway!) But if we knew how much money we wanted/needed for a specific reason (developing a racing team/development squad/equipment like track bikes etc - altho HH is getting 200 new ones from Fuji anyway) maybe - but it strikes me we're not that sort of club at the moment. Maybe in the future?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 13:49:51 GMT
Julian, I think you could have a winning design there. Your comments re. the dark blue to contrast/set off the yellow makes a lot of sense.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 14:32:23 GMT
Theo/Giles, I've heard good things about your design - is there a chance you could put a link to it up here?
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