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Post by chamoniards on Oct 13, 2005 18:32:17 GMT
I'd like to see Theo's and Piers' designs too, go on, post them up so we can see.
Having seen Julian's design. I have to say I much prefer the font on Dan's design but like the larger size of the text.
I think it's very important to to have the Dulwich name visible and prominant while riding. Whilst being the most obvious place for a design, the chest and back of a cycling shirt is normally impossible to see whilst actually cycling because they're nearly horizontal either facing the ground or the sky. The sides of the Jersey and shorts, the shoulders/sleeves and the back of the shorts seem to be overlooked in both designs but these are the most visible areas when actually cycling. I'd really like to see some designs utilising these areas more effectively.
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Post by tony m on Oct 13, 2005 21:43:38 GMT
I Just glanced a look at Julian's design, and while it does address the need to 'push' the club name, I think Dan's typography is stronger and more in keeping with the style of the club. Speaking as a professional designer, I don't think dan is too far off, I think it just simply needs a bit of working on his design to push the club name and also maybe for the rest of us to comment but not reject any ideas, rather add constructive critisim, that can help move the design on further.
Kevin's comment above is very good, there are plenty of 'unexplored' or overlooked areas for putting the club name in so it is more visible, and these would work with Dan's concept.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 22:31:32 GMT
Looking at the double-yellow line design, I think you might have problems getting the line to be in alignment across the torso-shoulder seams.
I think manufacturers tend to use one size of transfer on all pattern sizes – so for example you might get a perfect continuous line on a medium shirt, but staggered lines on larger & smaller sizes.
Something to check with the makers anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 3:08:58 GMT
I wasn't particularly taken with the new designs - sorry Dan. They reminded me of some of the stock jersey designs offered by most manufacturers. The last time I wore dark (navy) blue was my school uniform (aged 10). I want every day I put my cycling kit on to be like the "dressed-down" last day of term (with games, Monster Munch... and everything). Ironically, my club kit is the nearest thing to a uniform I'll ever willingly wear. Regarding that kit as a reflection of our club right now, I'd agree with those that call for something more playful and less austere. Dark blue jersey and shorts (or black as someone now suggested) is about as dour as it gets (this is also the kit for Scotland... is this where the national stereotype comes from?) Check out the middle pic on the bottom row for what seems like a fairly similar design and an indication of how it might look www.londoncyclesport.com/pics_2005/serr_10/thumb.htmlDULL as fook...! And this guy's from Crawley... so you know what's coming next with the DULLwich/DULLard Paragon referrences. Conversely, the down side of the "comedy" cycling approach is the "I'm a Fat Old Git, Me, Can't Cycle For Toffee Cycling Club" angle that a lot of clubs (particularly in the States) favour.... so I know it's a tricky balance to get right between wanting to "represent" and NOT taking yourself too seriously. I saw Piers' and Theo's version... straight away I'm up for that sort of thing. 40's RKO Vs. NASA Vs. Belgian Team Kit....Now THAT'S ambitious! Fantastic. Definitely a bit of tweaking required... I think Dan's type-face and logo are spot-on. Look at any group shot: tell me light blue doesn't stand out more than dark...Plus, anything logo/feature-wise on the front "chestal" area seems to compromise those with "abundantly contoured breastal regions" (seeing as we're into inverted commas and euphemisms for tits) and seems to be an issue: we can work that out, can't we? And another thing....We've got a chance here to create a genuinely unique design that operates OUTSIDE of the conventional trade or club kits... Clubs that offer conservative, dull or sponsor-emblazoned kit do so because they are scared of alienating potential members, or, exsisting sponsors: with our healthy membership of all sorts of levels and interests, now's the time to say "COME AND JOIN US IF YOU'RE HARD (OR SOFT OR MEDIUM) ENOUGH...Do what you want, but just try and tell us our kit doesn't ROCK!?! As one of the club racers, I want a kit that doesn't make me feel like slipping to the back of the bunch whilst apologising for ever having got in the way of the "proper" riders..."Ooh, look at you with your sponsorship from 'Dobbins' Knackers Yard Glue', 'Scrotum Estate Agents'.... and, sorry, what's that on your shoulder? Oh, it's your infant son's vomit...". I'm passionate about cycling, I'm passionate about bikes. Am I asking too much to be passionate about the kit of the club that I pledge myself to from the area that I identify most with? And can I shorten any rhetorical questions that refer to my passion for cycling...? I say "probably" and "yes" to much to much of this...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 16:16:08 GMT
I think the points raised about the cut of the jersey are important as it will affect what designs are possible due to alignment where panels meet. On the current Dulwich jersey there are side panels, but some jerseys just have front and back panels. Was a decision made on which manufacturer to go with?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 16:28:16 GMT
Looks like we're hoping to go with Sportful and I've sent a detailed set of such questions to them and I'm awaiting a response.
Their contact is going to be at the cycle show all weekend though so I don't expect any info from them till next week at least.
James
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Post by Andrew Berry on Oct 15, 2005 18:13:58 GMT
Hi - its me the big American who don't like hills... I too have done a couple jersey designs that follow on from the orignal presentation. Have a look at www.broadberry.biz/dulwich.html
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 20:10:44 GMT
I really like number 3. Did you try any with blue, rather than white, as the main colour? The big dp looks good and the name down the side.
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Post by Kenneth Foreman on Oct 15, 2005 20:38:38 GMT
I really like number 3...The big dp looks good and the name down the side. I hate to be churlish, and I actually think Dan's design is really, really excellent (well done Dan), but, on a lighter note, it was pointed out to me, by someone less cycling club informed, that DP might stand for "Dorothy Perkins". Taking it further, we could approach DP for sponsorship. I'm sure they need the exposure and I could do with some new frocks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 20:38:40 GMT
I like the 80's shoulder pads on #3
good effort, keep 'em coming
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Post by Andrew Berry on Oct 16, 2005 6:02:45 GMT
I too really like Dan's versions, but most of the comments above are not as favourable.
I am only offering alternatives.
Andy
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Post by chamoniards on Oct 16, 2005 15:58:48 GMT
Sorry to pre-empt any that James may have found out already but here's some details of what Julene and I saw today at the Cycle show.
We talked to Neil Goodman, the UK rep for Sportful, a very nice bloke he was too. He showed us some of the kit they had there including some Sigma Sport kit which looked like good quality stuff (although I preferred the design when they had yellow in it).
I asked him specifically about a horizontal band on the shorts and he said that it was possible but would put the cost up (apparently London Dynamo's new kit will have a horizontal strip around the legs of the shorts). He was recommending that we went with the a more conventional design utilising the side panels only as they could use a better quality short for that. They could also print on the back of the short but that this too would be an extra cost and would mean using a less good design of shorts. The side panels on the shorts he showed us were made with a curved cut narrowing towards the top, I think this would be a nice element to incorporate into the design if possible. There are a variety of different pads for the shorts which we can choose when we make an order, the one he showed us looked alright and is apparently what the Italian team use.
The jersey we looked at was called momentum. The fabric was lightweight with a slight mesh to it so it would wick away sweat easily. There was also a long sleeve jersey with a light fleecy lining that would be good for colder days. The zippers on the jersey are normally black, but they can do hidden zippers which would look better or coloured ones both at an extra cost and depending on quantities. He also mentioned that when it comes to printing the jersey they use the same size print for all sizes. This means that what might be a good size logo on a large shirt could be too large on a small shirt causing it to overlap at the seams, so any design needs to bear that in mind by keeping logos away from any seams. That was the only real limitation on printing, they can print anywhere on the shirt but he said that less busy or complicated designs come out looking best. Horizontal bands are easy to do and matching up the front and back isn't a problem to do. He also said that we don't have to have the sportful logo on the jersey if we really don't want it although he'd like it to be on there. We could always place it in a corner on the back, on a pocket for example so it doesn't interfere with the design. The shirts have a silicon gripper around the waist to stop the shirt rising up, which is also optional as are the sportful labels on the inside. They also do women's specific kit.
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Post by Andrew Berry on Oct 16, 2005 16:06:20 GMT
Hi Kevin,
Is there a grid for what they do available that you can post so we can understand the parameters?
Andrew
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Post by chamoniards on Oct 16, 2005 16:14:23 GMT
I think James is getting hold of all the info and has had quite a bit to do with them already, I'm sure he'll post what info he has when he gets it.
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Post by Nigel Wood on Oct 17, 2005 15:22:18 GMT
Andrew's designs - 3,4 and 5 especially - look great. They draw on Dan's designs and address most of the concerns. Brilliant!
Nigel
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